Adeyemi Adetula is a PhD student at the University of Grenoble, where he is leading the ManyLabs Africa project. In this conversation, we talk about that project, his recent commentary 'Psychology should generalize from - not just to - Africa', how Western researchers can best collaborate with African researchers, and much more.
0:00:05: How Adeyemi went from psychology student in Nigeria to PhD student in France
0:13:27: ManyLabs Africa
0:18:54: Synergy between the Credibility Revolution and research development in Africa
0:25:26: How and why Adeyemi crowdfunded his PhD
0:36:42: Psychology should generalize from - not just to - Africa
0:54:47: How can Western researchers test their theories in more diverse samples?
1:03:47: Pounded yam with Egusi soup and bushmeat
References and links
ManyLabs Africa: https://osf.io/vh6td/
Collaborative Replications and Education Project: https://www.crep-psych.org/
CREP Africa: https://osf.io/kvhzg/
Adeyemi's GoFundMe: https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-african-scholar-in-financial-distress
Adeyemi's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/support_adeyemi_adetula_dream
Adetula, ... IJzerman (2022). Psychology should generalize from—not just to—Africa. Nat Rev Psych.
Adetula, ... IJzerman (2021). Synergy Between the Credibility Revolution and Human Development in Africa. AfricArXive.
Adetula, … IJzerman, H. (2021). The Evaluation of Harm and Purity Transgressions in Africans: A Paradigmatic Replication of Rottman and Young (2019). AfricArXive
Klein, ... Nosek (2014). Investigating variation in replicability: A “many labs” replication project. Soc Psych.
Rottman & Young (2019). Specks of dirt and tons of pain: Dosage distinguishes impurity from harm. Psych Sci.
The 5 shortlisted African papers for the ManyLabs Africa replication:
Bevan-Dye & Akpojivi (2016). South African Generation Y students’ self-disclosure on Facebook. South African J of Psych.
Kombo, S. (n.d.). Using behavioural informed communication to drive civic engagement. [Unpublished paper] https://busaracenter.org/case_studies/behaviorally-informed-communication-to-drive-civic-engagement/
Mgbokwere, Esienumoh & Uyana (2015). Perception and attitudes of parents towards teenage pregnancy in a rural community of Cross river state, Nigeria. Global J of Pure & Applied Sci.
Ojedokun (2015). Extramarital affair as correlate of reproductive health and home instability among couples in Ibadan, Nigeria. African J of Social Work.
Teye-Kwadjo, Kagee & Swart (2018). Condom use negotiation among high school adolescents in Ghana: The role of gender. South African J of Psych.
(This is an automated transcript that contains many errors)
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah, I thought we could, uh, maybe start by, uh, kind of talking about kind, just generally how you got interested in psychology and Yeah. Doing kind of basically how you got to doing what you're doing today. And I was curious, you mentioned on your, on your patron, you mentioned, uh, kind of how your father and your uncle both worked as psychologist and inspired you there.
So I'm just curious, like, yeah, what, what did that exactly mean? And maybe what was, what was the story with the, with the iron rod?
Adeyemi Adetula: Yeah, so I think I, I got interested in, uh, psychology earlier on in life. Fortunate to, my dad, uh, is a psychologist, and my uncle, uh, is a psychologist. So virtually I, I kind of learned from
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Sorry. Psychologist means, uh, like clinical or research or.
Adeyemi Adetula: Okay. Yeah. Uh, my dad, uh, is an industrial and forensic psychologist, and my uncle, uh, is a clinical psych. [00:01:00] So the story of my uncle, uh, so there was this day we just crossing the road and so there was this, uh, mentally disordered man across the road and my confidently, my uncle just approached him and said, Yeah, can I see the road?
Then he just over the road to him and I was just behind him, so I was looking like, because this man is scary and nobody even wants to go close to him with the road. And like, and he had p like, Can I see the road? And he, he ended over the road to him and immediately the man handed over the road just seems like, realized that, Oh, did I just add over my weapon to somebody?
And he was and he was about to attack him in a way. And my uncle was like, I don't want to see you with this fraud again. So I kind of pause. I. Yeah. Is this what psychology do? . So like, so I, uh, okay, yeah, that's cool. I think I really want to learn more [00:02:00] about this. Then they know my dad has a bunch of, uh, text in the house.
Then I just keep open some of these texts and read so many aspect of, uh, psychology. So from the stats, I've thought in my mind, like, yeah, if I have the opportunity to have a, to do psychology, I'm definitely going to take it even at a point, uh, when I have to decide between doing psychology and economics.
And my dad was like, Yeah, you probably, there's an offer for economics. I said, No, I will do psychology. And so this is a big motivation for me. Then I, I focus on this, keep reading, keep trying to be better. And, uh, yeah, I am in France, uh, after like a long journey, you know, to to to be a psychologist. Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Is, uh, one thing I was curious about in general, and this, I mean, I guess in general, we're gonna talk. Quite a bit about how today, about how psychology is or psychological research is in, I mean, Africa, [00:03:00] which is always feels funny to be just saying in Africa because it's just such a huge
Adeyemi Adetula: Yeah, exactly.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: but one thing I was curious in general was kind of the, because you did your Bachelor's of Masters in Nigeria, what the, like the, the, the texts for example, that your father had and the things you would done at university is that I was really curious like whether that's more or less the same things that we are taught in Europe and the, the Western world, whether that's, you know, this the same kind of studies or whether it's like a completely different kind of, um, research that, you know, we're not even familiar with in, in Europe or, or the US
Adeyemi Adetula: Yeah, I, I mean, totally. Uh, the, the text that I get is like, uh, It's all about like, uh, a Western name and most times, like we struggle to pronounce these names. Like, so, so most of the texts that we have earlier on a Western based, developed and written by a western researcher for me, like, uh, psychology [00:04:00] development in Nigeria are kind of, I would say's slow because, uh, we, we don't, we don't have much to go and it, it, it's barely like 55 years old now in Nigeria and some other African countries as is way young, younger, like the, uh, the practice of psychology.
So for me, I, I did my BSE 2000 and thousand and four and, uh, this is when very few people want to aspire to be a psychologist. So we barely have students, uh, register or seek admission for, for psychology. So most of the time people just like go for. Some of the most popular one, then Economics, medicine, and some other courses, science courses like this and psychology is not 18 and the people will just go forward because we don't know much about it.
For me, I was just privileged to have to retake, uh, like this, uh, psychology text. So yeah. [00:05:00] So still growing, Um, very few departments. Well, right now I think, uh, is, is we have pretty much like close to like maybe 40 departments. I, I can't, I can't tell often, but I think should be like close to 40 departments of psychology in Nigeria right now.
And that's pretty much like, uh, a lot when it started is like we have like 10, those five 10 like just keeps doing like that. So, So there's not much to go with then. And a lot of what we, people that have the, the practice psychology right now really developing the, in the eighties, um, um, yeah, they are doing their thing.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Wait, so if psychology is not super popular and very few people do it, how did both your uncle and your father end up doing it? Yeah, it seems like they must have been like, very early in the, in the game in Nigeria.
Adeyemi Adetula: Okay. So, uh, I dunno how they get into it actually, because we have very few [00:06:00] departments of psychology in Nigeria at that time. Yes. Uh, so I don't know how, but Okay. I think that there's a story that my uncle did psychology then told my dad about how interest these courses, and I think my dad fail for that and like, yeah, okay.
I think I'm going do psychology. So, so funny enough, my dad kind of, uh, uh, I think, uh, went for that because, uh, he got his PhD. The man couldn't have his PhD in psychology. Then the psychology are pretty much not popular because I, I, I know for a fact. If there's admission psychology students are way, way, like lower students than the other, than the other department.
So, so they, they tried every kind of, uh, means to, to get more students for psychology, but the other ones are like, they can have like over, I mean, people just follow each other to, to get admission to other [00:07:00] disciplines, but psychology, So that was not the case. Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I mean, so you said you, you, uh, did your, your bachelor's in 2004.
Adeyemi Adetula: You know, I mean, I, I got admission in 2014. I, I, I finished, uh, 2018, uh, there about, yeah, so I, I, I did my masters. I started masters in 2011, then finished 24. 2014, uh, in, in Nigeria. And these are some of the problems that the regularity of, uh, the, the academic, uh, Yes. Is so much. Sometimes you have strikes and sometimes, uh,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Okay.
Adeyemi Adetula: sometimes they're just bunch of issues that just delayed you.
And so these are like, so sometimes you start on, you didn't finish on time. Like you have to spend some extra years able to finish, uh, your, the program. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: And yeah, I'm curious like why? Yeah, why did you wanna do a PhD and why go to, I mean you are, you're in France now, so kind of [00:08:00] what was the decision to, To do a PhD and then specifically to, how did you end up in the lab that you're in now? I mean, was it always a decision to go abroad or was it kind of random or, Yeah.
Adeyemi Adetula: So I, I think my, my journey to, to France, uh, I just, uh, started, uh, at my own university because I, I, I work with university in Nigeria, and so there is this team that will allow, uh, academic staff to, to do program masters or PhD in France. So, uh, this, this game is in partnership with, uh, campus France. So like, yeah, I think, uh, I need to.
So kind of move out of Nigeria, then learn more about psychology, uh, in a more, say, advanced country. So it would be a great opportunity for me. So I, I key into that, did some kind of, some French language courses. I, in elementary. So just, just to make sure like I can get the admission. [00:09:00] Yeah. So one of my colleague who went through this process, uh, she's already in France and she.
Kind of link me up with my current supervisor and , like, I'm not sure I pronounce that very well. Like, it's kind of complicated. Like, is it, is it doer researcher, so I'm not good with it. Doer ation, where it's like that. So yeah, I hope it's not, uh, offended that, that I kind of missed up, uh, the pronation of his name.
Uh, so I, I get connected with him. We, we, this cause, and it was super, very open and asked me if I want to come then if I want to do 30 related to replication. And that was the first time I had about replication. Like, I couldn't, there, like, I don't know what application is though. I tried to, to dig literature like what is replication?
Like this is
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Okay.
Adeyemi Adetula: so you can, you can, it was not like, okay, yeah you can, you can try to think [00:10:00] about it. I said, Okay, I'm gonna think about it. And. That I would get back to him. I think maybe this second or the third day, I just kind of send him email. I like, ah, I think I'll be interested in this. Okay. So we had Zoom call and he was like, Yeah.
I said, Yeah, I'm interested in running a replication study . And he was like, Oh, that's, that's pretty fast. It's kind of a big to like, yes, I, I need the admission , I need to just process this and, and get to France and start working on the PhD. You know, So, so I, I, I got the admission. Then I, I moved to France and so the whole journey started about replication, getting involved in African psychology.
Cause this was not my initial plan. I, I was thinking I would just run my own studies. Something close to, uh, by the way, I did forensic and correctional psychology at master's level. So I'm thinking something along the line of, Criminal behavior, maybe something correctional, [00:11:00] like, uh, something related to that.
Then when, when I go to France, then, uh, the whole journey of like replication, big science, open science, how African can become involved in this. They're like, Yeah, so this is my new founder, . Yeah. So, yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: But it seems you've really embraced that, right? I mean, it seems like you are really trying. I mean, from what I can tell, I. Me if I'm wrong, but you are, at least I saw there's a many Labs Africa project where you are the contact person for and yeah. Okay. So it's really interesting because, uh, yeah, like when I just saw you cv I thought like, Oh, okay, maybe this was your plan from the beginning, but, um,
Adeyemi Adetula: Yes, Yes. So I, so that was on my platform, the beginning, . So I think all this started like two years plus, like, uh, so, but I, I, I came to France in February, 2020. Then I, I, I just kind of embraced this because what [00:12:00] I will have to do and, you know, so I just have to embrace it. Then I start, sit down, study, look at the literature, look at the trend.
And interestingly, I, I, I say probably I fell in love with that. I like, yeah, I think there is something bigger that, uh, I can learn, you know, and, and I can also impact, uh, uh, people back home and tell them about, uh, this new movement, about, uh, making research more credible, more transparent. And there are, there are tools you can use and some of these tools are, are open sourced, is free, you know, at no cost.
You can, you can get to do more research, collaborate with people and other stuff. So, so I just kind of embrace it and say, Okay, good. I have to run with this. And then, then I started, uh, the whole issue of the many labs are Africa initiative. So, so the, the, the issue, the, the initiative is kind of like [00:13:00] ambitious, I would say, because nobody, I've discussed this with like, yeah, this is what I was like, ah, are you sure you can do this within this span of three, three years and, and get, Yeah, I'll give you a try and, and see what happened.
So right now it looks like this is what I, I've been planning for all this about that. This started like, uh, two years. Uh, two years. And yeah, like, yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah, I mean, maybe can we talk a bit more about the, the Many Labs Africa project? I mean, I dunno how, how far it is and how much you can tell about it, but kind of what's the, I mean it's, from what I understand, many labs is this, this effort to have, well, many different labs, uh, collaborating to replicate certain papers that they deem important to replicate and yeah, kind of what is many labs, Africa and, Yeah.
Maybe just what, what is it here?
Adeyemi Adetula: So, so I, when I arrived in France, um, so, so there, this document, my supervisor, uh, [00:14:00] showed me and was like, There this document maybe you want to read about, uh, the mini lab study. So that was my first introduction to it. Uh, the, this author, uh, Rick, uh, k. Yeah, Richard client, like he did like the many labs, uh, study.
I think probably the, No, actually the first one that I, that I knew about, like, uh, it tested, uh, effects. Uh, then I think he used some of the population, use some kind of sample, got sample from Africa, like some few countries. I can't remember specifically. I think maybe Nigeria is part of the country. Yeah.
So, and, and then I, I see that like we have series, we have the many labs, two, then three I, we have also like many labs, five right now, then the many labs Africa. So, so like I kind of, I was inspired by by that, but, but the main issue is that some of the tools and the practices that many labs is projecting, like, uh, the use of the open science framework is not popular in Nigeria, for [00:15:00] example.
Then with time I start looking at this in other African C God, that this is not, uh, very popular because then. The question is, how do we allow people to, to use this, uh, platform? Because, uh, if you can use, this is a little bit difficult for you to collaborate with, uh, researchers out there because, uh, they're already using the, the open science framework, some of their idea scripts in how language.
So the first thing we should do is to find a way to develop the research capac capacity of African researcher that want to participate in the Many Labs African study. Again, we turn to another initiative. The Collaborative Revocation Education Project usually called this crap or cri like, so, so I kind of struggle with Theron research.
I like, well about, I'm very confident when I sayre. Uh, so this allows you to, to run a replication study using, uh, some of these open science tools. You just follow these practices. Then you able to [00:16:00] replicate, uh, a study. So I adopted that, uh, initiative. But this time we are going to run a study in Africa, like, so we call that the CRE Project Africa.
So for this prep project Africa, I, I created like a, not, not me exactly, but, well, I did it in conjunction with, uh, Jordan Wa the executive director of Creb, but she, she did, she did bunch of the, the recording. But we discuss about creating like a training, uh, video. So we have a series of four training videos.
Then over time, we, we hacked, uh, African researchers, uh, they able to provide, uh, translation. So we sub to this video about six African, uh, languages. I think we have like, uh, we have Portuguese, we have , Sw Evil. Uh, so I think that there's another one I can't remember right now. So this allow with, with this kind of video, [00:17:00] We can tell.
Okay. If you, if you have the opportunity to look at this video, you can learn more about the cre. And some of this was about open science, the open science framework, how people, how we can do a replication store that we can start, then you can complete this using the CRE platform. So that is the idea of the C project.
And this is tied to the Rodman and younger replication. So again, we selected a study, So this study, we, I believe this study like is something, uh, relevant of that might be of interest to African researchers. We actually ask them, Do you think this study is not? And some of them like, Yeah, this study is cool.
They can run this kind of study in Africa, in their country. And like, okay, cool. Then we worked on that. Then we, uh, we, we submitted a register report to, to hams, uh, a journal and we are working on that right now.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: That's the one where, Preprint of that is public,
Adeyemi Adetula: Yes, we, yeah, So, so a preprint of that is, is public and, and [00:18:00] I think most of my work, I, I do preprint, you know, so that majorly, majorly, uh, so that African researcher can have access to it because most of the journals that they are, they are paid well and a lot of African such, I don't even get to see, uh, I would say, uh, uh, new kind of, uh, publication.
We, we mostly just get some of them when it is like, uh, it is not, uh, probably a contemporary issue that people discuss. And so with a pre-print, people can, they can see, they can download this and they can, you know, they know, uh, the trends of discussion and they know. The train, the discussion, ongoing discussion.
Um, so for me, Arin is very important to share what I do with African researchers. Um, yes.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah, it's, it's really interesting to me that you, you had the, uh, I think that's also still a preprint, um, like, wait, what was the name? Uh, [00:19:00] I'm blanking it right now. Um, but yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, I'll, by the way, if anyone new to the podcast, I'll, I'll put links and references for everything we discussed in the description.
Uh, yeah, so the synergy treatment, exactly. What I found interesting there is that how you kind. So basically like all the stuff that's going on in the, uh, well, replication crisis is such a negative word. So you use, um, what term do you use again? Um, reproducibility revolution or something like
Adeyemi Adetula: Yes, that, Okay. The, the credibility revolution.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: credibility revolution.
Yeah. Um, so like basically how lots of the tools that the word develop developed their actually especially beneficial for people in Africa where, for example, financial resources are just not as high. So like, um, yeah. Can you maybe talk, um, a little bit more about kind of, you already mentioned pre-prints, how that's a really useful thing that people from uh Yeah.
Countries with few resources can read the papers. Yeah. Can you maybe talk a little bit about a few other examples of how this is really Yeah. Helping.[00:20:00]
Adeyemi Adetula: So the, the, the synergy, uh, between that credibility revolution and development, uh, in, in Africa, for me this is an, uh, educational kind of a article. So one is to, is to tell people from the us from the Europe and other. World regions that, uh, this is what is going on in, in, in Africa. And these are some of our shortcomings and our challenges when it comes to research.
The funding, uh, the need for, for capacity development needs to you to develop people's capacity research, uh, capacity, the lack of facilities, infrastructures, resources, funding, and other stuff. And so these are, these are challenge, uh, the challenges that, um, African researcher go through on a daily basis, plus the workload and other store.
Uh, so it is to out the, to try to, you know, to be a research. [00:21:00] And, and keep up with their life, live a good life and other stuff. But the other side of the, the credibility revolution is very interesting that the open science movement have allowed people to, to create, uh, tools to advance credibility. But the fact that these tools are open source, like you can assess them for free, should be something that can solve the problem of, uh, of lack of resources to get from, from the African angle.
So for example, I, we, I've talked about the preprint. That means you can have access to literature, can have us to, to open access journals, maybe the, the grain open access journal, The, the, the goal, open access journal. You can have access to dataset like, uh, open data. People have, have done something and you want to, you want to use as some of these resources or just, just to check and see are, are this, Resources where I can learn that can educate me about how to go about [00:22:00] some kind of research or like a workflow where people, people have posted these stores and this are free, like, uh, and they are available.
So for me, AccessAbility and able to share that, Africans can learn from that. For me, another big one that I, and I think I'm, I'm mostly is, is the collaboration. Kind of networking, reach out to people, then share resources. Then you can work on projects, uh, research or studies and, and you can get visibility.
You know, people, people can see that you, you are doing something, you're contributing to, to knowledge that, uh, in a way contribute to institution. Where you're in Africa, you go through this yourself. Sometimes you, you spend, uh, your own, uh, from your pockets able to do research. But yeah, you can just. We can do, we can collect data from a, from a different country.
Um, the other, the partner who, who [00:23:00] collect the data, uh, do the expenses, then you, then you are part of that kind of study. So this is where I was going to for the, for the African, I said, You can tap into this, uh, resources and do research at, at a cheap park course. And also in the piece we, we try to highlight, uh, some of this aspect.
Then we recommend, uh, we, we made some recommendation about, uh, accessibility. Like I said, how you can key to this, the kind of tools you can use, how this can be beneficial to you. At the same time, we, we, we made the recommendation to people from the in court, the rich universities or society that, yeah, this is what you can do to, to support.
African researchers, We need funds, we need, uh, tools. You, you can make, uh, some of these things open to schools more and we're able to participate in some of your research.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. And, uh, I think it's, uh, uh, [00:24:00] you also mentioned in that piece that, uh, you know, Cy Hub is a website that is where you can download, uh, tapers for free. But it's very important to highlight that this is illegal and you should definitely not use it. Um, But you know, so you should, you should definitely not use this website where you can get papers for free.
Adeyemi Adetula: Yeah. So so I don't even want to talk about about, but what, Yeah. So. For sure the, the, the site is going to serve, uh, Africans more because you, you are able to at least get, uh, some literature that you, you can, there's no way you can afford the subscription. You know, even for some universities in, in, in Nigeria for example, there's a lot, they pay lots, you know, to subscribe.
And there is little, they can do little because of, uh, the funds. So if you can have like [00:25:00] a site like the, like that, it allows you to, to have access to more text. And then you can, you can, yeah, you can, you can follow the, the researcher discussions. Well what we, But I'm not like, uh, I know, like I said, you don't want to recommend, uh,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: No, no. Not recommending that people use this. Definitely not.
Adeyemi Adetula: I go this.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Um, yeah, I mean, I guess maybe whilst we're talking about funds, So the, the one thing that's kind of unusual and that I didn't expect, I mean, so I read first your article, uh, Psychology Generals from Not Just To Africa, and I guess we could talk a bit about that later.
And then I kind of just checked out, like I think I, someone tweeted about the article or something and included you or something like that. And then, yeah, I mean this was, um, around the time that you had the problem with the funding. Um, so maybe can you for yeah, just kind of explain what the situation was there and how Yeah.
I mean, you already mentioned how you basically, [00:26:00] um, you know, from Nigeria applied to get a, a place in France and then arrived there and maybe what you did mention is the financial situation, if that So can Yeah. Can maybe tell that story.
Adeyemi Adetula: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Sure. Uh, so I, I think, uh, you, you, you mentioned at a point like, uh, it's unusual, you know, like to have this kind of situation.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. At least for people that I know exactly this.
Adeyemi Adetula: Well, so, so I can tell you that, uh, from my understanding, right, that is, is I'm kind of finding more cases like mine because yeah, after my situation, I, I, I spoke with a couple of colleagues from Nigeria and someone, they're like, Yeah, they.
Like this kind of looks like my, I was promised that, that I, I'm gonna get something that I should, I should go, Don't worry. We'll process your funding [00:27:00] and a year plus right now they, they don't receive anything. So like, uh okay. Are you should like, Yeah. What, like, Yeah, my universe and that are different stories like that.
So I dunno what's going on back there. I dunno what people do these days. And I think, uh, a number of people are not getting their, their, their funding and, and this is not, uh, it's not foreign at all. It's not, in my own case, I, I committed some, some few amount I have to spend my personal, uh, savings, you know, to, to, to able to survive a few months, the first few months, uh, when I got to, to France and, uh, so this was going on.
Then I, my supervisors, uh, they, they, they start getting, uh, I feel they're even kind of more worried about the situation for me, you know? And yeah, so aside from the main supervisor has , uh, I, I work with my supervisor after the supervisors [00:28:00] actually, uh, Patrick Foer, he's one of the leading a big team sciences currently in Zu Center in, in Kenya, Africa.
I met him a super great person, a friend, and, and, and like, and is a mentor, you know, for what I do right now. Then, uh, um, Dana, Dana past Night Brown, uh, is also in Kenya. I would say. I think private invest in Kenya. So I think, uh, this theory like, yeah, I think we, you need funding, What do we do? We exhausted all other options and we tried to contact our campus friends with this contact, my own university.
Do we have funds?
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Sorry, just to, to clarify, I mean, I'm not sure how explicitly we mentioned this. You, you were given a scholarship, is that correct? Um, or at least some sort of funding to do your PhD. And then when you arrived in France, you never got any of the money. Um,
Adeyemi Adetula: I, I was given a scholarship. Um, I have a [00:29:00] document to this, uh, to this effect. Like here, you, you get, uh, money when you, when you get to France, but for, for in the meantime, you, you have to sustain yourself. Then I committed, uh, some amounts, you know, for the first few months. And so my, my thinking was, was that as I was promised that before a few months we'll get everything sorted out.
Then you, you start getting your, your. So that didn't happen. The only money I got was one that I committed to when I was leaving Nigeria. So, and I kept asking what was going on? Did you guys apply at all? Like Yeah, we, we applied and, and I think this falls at a period when the, the covid and the pandemic, uh, period.
And I can imagine the, the, the finances of some of these go government and maybe since we're not running normally. Uh, so that was for me an excuse like maybe after the Covid stuff they can resolve this and I can start getting, you know, my dues, [00:30:00] my, my grant. Yeah. So, yeah, it is good to, it is good to clarify that I, I was promised to get these and they made the application, but I didn't get the, the phone and, yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. And then, sorry, I mean you interrupted you
Adeyemi Adetula: Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so I was talking like before the, uh, crowdfund day, uh, 10. We, we, we, we, we tried a lot of other options and like, we just wanted of option. And, um, I think I was doing a meeting and my, so I was like, maybe want to try crowdfund? They like, yeah, I think a wanted to because I, I really want to focus on what, what I'm doing right now.
And so we, we try that and yeah, a lot of researchers from the psychological community donated, uh, you know, through the depart and the good fund Me right now, I say I'm, I kind of more, more relaxed and focus on the project. And so I want to use this opportunity to thank them for, for their support and, and donation.
So, yeah, right [00:31:00] now I think I'm in a, a good place, uh, you know, to, to focus on the, on the project.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Okay. That's good. I was wondering like, um, Yeah, I mean like some of the questions I had was one of them was just like, how are you doing right now? Like financially, I mean just financially, is that still a problem or why do you have enough to get through it? And then also, yeah, the second question, like how did you, how did that affect you?
Because I don't know, it sounds like if you go to a foreign country with a foreign language to do work and then suddenly you have no money and you're not even allowed to work because you're a visa. Uh, yeah. that sounds rough.
Adeyemi Adetula: I, I, I mean, uh, it was, it was pretty of, it was period of like, yeah, I dunno how to express that. Like I. I just try to leave. Uh, I would say, uh, maybe day by day, but, but I pretty much check in my finances, like every kind of expense that I check, like, Please, you can't [00:32:00] you have to like manage this. And so I was living on a very extremely low budget, you know?
Um, so just to make sure I get through every day. Then, then looking forward, maybe I will get a grant. The grant will come and then I will be to relax. But, but I, so I was really struggling financially, but I just have to keep going, you know? So, yeah. Uh,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Is there any plans on getting the original fund, or is that out of the question completely.
Adeyemi Adetula: I think that that is of the question probably I've given up, I've given up, I've given up on, on that , I've given up on that. Like, it, it does, doesn't want the stress to, to just go back and forth on that. Yeah. So, Yeah. So I, I, whatever they want to, they want to do and let them figure it out, like , right? I just have to focus on, and I, I think, uh, a lot of people, like I said, from the [00:33:00] psychology community are really, I mean, I was not expecting, there's so much support like that.
So, you know, I was just like, Wow. Like this was what I was, I was thinking I would just get something at least to, you know, I can manage it for, for another few months and start to figure out where do I get, you know, and it was pretty much close to, uh, maybe I was able to, to get something for like, uh, 70% percent of what the target.
And also, um, right now I can relax more, like I said, than some
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Okay. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, I mean, it's crazy like how much money people gave. I, I also was kind of surprised because I, you know, I saw it after basically most of that had happened, Right? Yeah. When I heard about it, I was also surprised that it would actually work. I didn't think, I mean, like, sure you'd have like some people who would give something, right?
But it seems like, yeah, you, you pretty much managed to get, uh, at least large portions of what you were supposed to [00:34:00] be given by the fund you were given by researchers who had just individually paid in some money here and there.
Adeyemi Adetula: Yeah. The truth is like, I'm, I was surprised too, like, like yeah. I was like expecting so much support like that, like wow. Yeah. So this is like kind of a call to duty for me. Like maybe that is something that I'm doing that a lot of people wants to see this progress, you know? And they, they, they are ready to, to commit their money to, to make sure that I get through it.
And I, you know, so that means I have to like, uh, Double down again, make sure like , I, I, I cannot push this note, you know, further. So yeah,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: It's interesting. I was wondering that whether, I mean, I didn't, I wasn't sure whether, whether I was gonna ask this question, but I, I was wondering like whether this puts a bit more pressure on you, cuz usually you get funding from like an anonymous, you know, big kind of government grant. And I mean, of course you wanna do a good job, but like, there's just money that [00:35:00] exists, whereas now it's like individual people who gave to you.
Some of them actually, at least one of them was actually on the podcast. I, I, I saw, I, I went through the list. Um, but yeah, I was just wondering like, does that, do you feel like extra pressure through that or is it just appreciation or, Yeah.
Adeyemi Adetula: Yeah, I, I, I will not say extra pleasure like, uh, to, to do this, but I think, uh, maybe may I say I kind of appreciate more why I should, uh, I should, I should, uh, push this, you know, I should push the idea of improving African participation in, in global research, especially for psychological science. So, uh, not a pleasure too much, but I really appreciate, like, uh, our individuals are, are committed to, to, to the, to my vision, you know?
Um, not, not, not necessarily the pressure, but, but I, but, but I don't want to disappoint them actually. So
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah.
Adeyemi Adetula: [00:36:00] so, so, so I, I just, they have to, to put in more work, you know, But, uh, I think. I appreciate, I appreciate this. Supported. It's, uh, is really cool to see people turning up like that. Yeah. I mean, I, I looked at the names too, like as Oh, really?
So this interesting individual as like as scholars that I, you know, I respect a lot and I like, Wow, you get, this is, this is good. You know, So, so I, I see like what I'm encouraged, you know, I'm encouraged with, uh, with this, Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Well, that's cool. Um, yeah. Shall we, shall we go back to talking a bit more about the actual, I mean, I guess in some ways this is maybe related, as I said, like we were already talking about limited funds and that kind of stuff, and how that can be a problem. Uh, but maybe more to the. Yeah, the, the slightly like, I dunno exactly what I'd call this.
Um, is a great [00:37:00] transition, Anyway, I wanna talk about, uh, your article Psych Generales from not just to Africa, uh, because that was the initial way of how I, uh, kind of, uh, found out about you and your
Adeyemi Adetula: Mm. Okay.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. I mean, maybe can you just, uh, just to get the, kind of the ball rolling, briefly summarize, I mean, it's a commentary, it's not a super long piece, but mainly kind of what the main message, um, there is.
And uh, yeah. Then we can discuss the details a bit more. Yeah.
Adeyemi Adetula: Yeah, I, I can, I can summarize that a little bit, but so like, I just want to put something really quick and maybe not the sum summary, but, uh, so it's interesting that, uh, this, uh, specific, uh, commentary, uh, is getting, like, I would say it's getting the, the attention. And so, so the, the idea of, uh, the commentary, like, uh, I think what.
Happened when, uh, Jane, uh, Rich LA the chief editor of, uh, Nation Review Psychology. [00:38:00] So at the, I think we invited her to, to our lab, the core regulation lab, uh, in France. Yeah. And so she, I think she gave a talk about, uh, the initial, uh, review psychology, what's all about and what they do. And we had the opportunity to have like a kind of a small group discussion with, with her.
And, uh, so I, I told her about my initiative and she, she was so enjoy, like, yeah, this is kind of a blind spot for, for, for people in, in Europe or, Yeah. And, and she, she would, like, if I want to write a comment, she's going to really welcome that, like, say, ah, okay. Uh, I tell I can do that . So let, so, so let's see, let's see.
Uh, what happened? So this is, this is where, uh, the, this particular piece came for just to. An idea for a commentary and to share the single fact that a lot of effects are, most, most of what we do is from, from the US majorly, you know, from [00:39:00] the US to other part of the, the world, the other world region. And, and, uh, we want to replicate effects found in the us And then, and for me, the, my own initiative is all about, I think we, we should start looking at, uh, looking at effects or some, some claims from other regions and for me, Africa, and see maybe there are something, we have something there that some people from the US can learn from to they can use to improve their own cos and, and, uh, stuff like that.
Then I, I kind of put together the, the commentary. So where to start from is, uh, in terms of giving the summaries that. Right now Africa is, uh, is about 17%, uh, what population right now, And guess what, Uh, by 2050, Africa will probably, will be the, the largest, uh, we have the largest population is gonna be crazy.
Maybe, maybe close to around what I, I [00:40:00] don't know the percentage right now, but it is pretty going to be the, like the largest population. And if, if, if that is going to be, then we need to pay attention to what psychology is in, in this population that is going to dominate the, like the dominate the population of the world.
And, and then that means you have to pay attention to what's the thinking, the, the thought process of, of an African man, how African man, his own view. How, how does this develop into, into cheer for them? How do they manage suha issues? Um, we can learn from, from this and, and see maybe we can apply this part of the world.
I think it's very important that, that, that word population should be included in, in research are, you know, so, so then, then I looked at, uh, the training, what we call the, the big team science, you know, the, this, uh, when you come together and people study, then they kind of [00:41:00] network people from different part of the world and conduct a study.
Some story can be very, very, uh, large, you know, like this sampling can be, can be that, uh, big, sometimes like 15,000 and like that. And so both, most of the effects that people do use are like almost all in, in, in the situation that I, that I cited, were unable to c those stuff, but I look like the psychological science salary.
So even the many lab studies that. I got inspirations for the many Labs Africa study. Almost in all these cases are effects from the us. Uh, maybe some few ones from, from the Europe, uh, that might not really serve as too well to, if, if you want psychology truly be like, uh, to, to generalize, uh, what people do to psychology represent the, the whole idea of the human, uh, you know, population.
So, like I said, then it makes more sense for psychologists. [00:42:00] Start looking at what Africa do. Um, how they, they, they go about their own, uh, stuffs. They be the, the tourists from Africa. Then for us to do that, we have to like, uh, understand African psychology, you know, We have to know their own research focus.
You know, what, what, what is interesting for Africa? To what, what are they interested in? What, what, what are those things that are relevant to them? You know, as a society, you know, even at the different country level, different countries, you know, we have like 54 countries in Africa, and I can tell you there are different cultures and different way people address issues.
But of course we have similarities. And that is, and most of the times I concentrate on this, on these similarities where we have the common grounds and see, okay, if you have the common grounds on this particular research area, I can say yes. So that means this reside [00:43:00] will be relevant to all these different cultures in, in Africa.
So we want to understand. And from my understanding right now, most of the issues in Africa kind of are practical problems to solve. Issues that like, uh, corruption, political instability, you know, poverty, disease related kind of problems like that. So they want to look at this, you know, at, for Africa, not specifally, like theoretical, uh, based kind of kind of study.
Like they just want to, they want applied, uh, studies that helps them to solve, uh, these, these problems. So for us in Africa, this is something that, and, and I think some, some, some areas, some discipline in Africa, like, uh, public health are doing like, even like federal than psychological because they're dealing with some of these issues.
And I, I think their, their contribution globally is, you know, is is pretty, is pretty. Okay. You. From, [00:44:00] because these are issues that they, they focus on and these are issues that even some African government are going to invest their funds into, you know, because it concerns that solving some of this problem.
The other aspect that I think we need to understand about Africa is, is the reality of, uh, of funds, you know, lack of infrastructure and, you know, the environmental researcher, you know, to their, their, their own, their own stuff. So if, if we know, if we are able to understand that, then we know where to come in, what is going to be important for them to able to, you know, to produce more.
You know, And sometimes we, they need access to literatures and people from the Europe and the US need to, you know, even if it is small grants, you know, to, to assist, you know, putting resources for them. Allow them to, you know, to share from how, from your own resources to able to, to do research. You know, it, it is taught out there.
And [00:45:00] so if we understand that you can, you can provide like a, like, let, I'll give an example. The Spsp Society for Personality and Social Psychology. I, I, I did, uh, this, uh, hackathon where I invited African researchers to participate and it was linked to training them. Then I, I got the grant of about $1,500.
So then with this grant, we able to provide like, uh, a hundred dollars, uh, internet sufficient grants for, for 15, you know, uh, attendees. And plus the, the, they got like a one year, uh, membership, you know, subs. . And for a fact, I can tell you like a number of them reached out to me after the exploration of the suspicion.
Like, are we going to get another, like, you know, are they going to renew this? Like, uh, no, I'm not sure that is going to happen. And that means they learn a lot of stuff from there, [00:46:00] you know, just being part of that society and if, if we can reach out to African, like, like these, even small grants is going to go a long way for them to, you know, participate, uh, in some of these, uh, stuff.
Yeah. So I, I, I think, uh, some of the things that we can think about is about the, we can, we can organize, uh, conferences, event that, that Africans can relate to. I, I have this personal experience, like I the attend conference and we were talking about, uh, inclusion and I, some of the, what they talk about inclusion are kind of.
Based on sexual orientation, uh, racial orientation, kind of inclusion kind of stuff. And I was like, uh, for my own, I'm thinking about Africa. Got like, yeah, these are, this are very interesting way to include people in research, you know, gender based, you know, kind of inclusion. Like you have to want to have more woman doing [00:47:00] a research and like that.
So like, but for us in Africa, like I think we even want to be part of the discussion in the first place, you know? So, so I, I follow the discussion, but I feel like. This is not, uh, what I'm thinking about when I, when I think about inclusion. So when I come and think about inclusion, I'm thinking about how do I get to, to work with you as an African person?
How, how do I get to my voice? You know, in, in my voice is heard when, when, when we are making this discuss. So for society, scientific societies like this in Europe and in the us we have to think about some, some of these, uh, topics or areas where Africans can, you know, can key into and able to make contribution because we, we cannot make contribution to some of the issues being discussed in some of these conferences.
Yeah. So, yeah. So the final as well, I've just tried to run this. So the final expert of this is like, uh, the, the replication, I said replicating African, [00:48:00] uh, effect discovered in, in, in, in Africa. So, yeah, I think that's, that's a long kind of summary, but, you know, so I get excited, uh, when I discuss, uh, this issue.
Like, uh, you know, uh, so I get carried away a lot and, and I know there are so many, there's so many stuff to talk about. Guess what? Like, it's a summary. Actually, I, I don't, I think it's like details of, you know, of, of my, uh, my, my thoughts about, uh, all things that I think we, we can do to make store better.
Yeah. Yeah. It's a long one.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah, no, I mean, what I really, uh, liked about that part is that it really shifted, The article kind of shifted just my perspective on this a bit, and it it relates also to what you mentioned. Uh, towards the end with what you would really like is to have, like, you know, to be part of the discussion, to have your voice heard in these things.
Because it seems to me that, and then this is definitely the way I thought about it before, it was just this [00:49:00] viewing kind of African, I mean, I didn't think about this too much, which is maybe part of the problem, but like viewing it more as like, oh, great, now we can test our theories with people who have, you know, different backgrounds and all these kind of things, which is, you know, I mean that's important and that's, um, it's, it's, uh, it's something I wish it was easier to do also.
Um, but yeah, kind of the reverse, which also the title of, of the commentary first to name me that, you know, Africa, like people in Africa have more to contribute than just, we can collect data in different populations, but you can actually, you know,
Adeyemi Adetula: for sure. For sure.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: different theories and all. Then,
Adeyemi Adetula: For
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: um, yeah, I'd never really thought about it that much.
Um, Uh, until I kind of read that, read that commentary, but Okay. Then a brief question, like why, so you mentioned the, the many labs Africa and the first replication you're doing, and, but you are replicating a study from, from, uh, I'm assuming US or Europe or something like that. Uh, [00:50:00] why not use a, um, a, you know, replicate a paper from, from an African country or African researchers?
Adeyemi Adetula: Yeah, so I, I think I need to clarify that. So what I, I have what we, what I, what I call the mini labs Africa project. So the mini labs projects like involves, uh, two studies. The first one is, yeah, the first one is the Credit Project Africa. So the credit project essentially is to allow of cancer, do a replication, and get trained, you know, get, uh, the idea, the experience of running a replication study using the CRE platform.
So for that study, that is, we, we, we select, we selected, uh, the Rosman and Young, uh, Uh, 2019 study. Yeah. About, uh, transgression and judgment and, you know, harm and, uh, purity, transmission, uh, judgment. If the, the process of selecting the study was, I would say [00:51:00] robust to, to some extent. Because at a point we have African researcher, we have three studies, we and want to use one of these.
Uh, no, I mean, we have three articles. Like they are kind of bonded, uh, studies like that. We have study one to three, but we have the Africans are like, we want to work with these studies. What do you think? Do you think it is feasible, is relevant? Can we adapt, uh, the, the measures. So, so, um, yeah. And we, we got like, Yeah, we can adapt.
Uh, these, these, So out of the last three, the top three fors, we ended up with the Rothman and Young one. So, so we, we had input from African researchers, but like I said, this is a study done in the us. For the second part of the study, what we call the Many Labs Africa study. The idea is to is to, is to get three uh, effects, uh, discovered, originally discovered, uh, in Africa.
That means, uh, co [00:52:00] conceptualize by an African used African sample, you know, uh, safe developed like the measure is, is developed in Africa, those kind of stuff. So is it two different studies? So the second one is, is is the main one way we, we push the idea of replicating, uh, effects from Africa, you know, in, in the u in North American essentially.
Maybe we are talking about the US Canada because we have a collaborators there right now, uh, from the US and Canada interested in, in working on this, the many labs, Africa story and than in Europe. So,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Okay, so you are, you are basically doing that, Yeah.
Adeyemi Adetula: Yeah. So I don't know, maybe I clarify like these, uh, the, the two different studies, you know?
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. We only talked about the the first study. Can you already say which papers you are trying to replicate, or is that not decided yet or secret
Adeyemi Adetula: Yes. . So, uh, so again, like, uh, for us to select the study [00:53:00] for the Many Labs Africa study, we went through another, uh, stages of study selection. We went back to Africa and started, We want to select study for this. What is going to be, what research area is going to be of interest and relevant to African researchers.
We got response and people, bunch of, like different people went to different areas. But again, if you looked at this area, like they are basically like kind of applied areas, you know, of cycle, kind of research areas. Then we narrow down, then we search the literature. I mean now we search African journals, studies that are done in Africa and like that.
Then of course we set some criteria so that want to make sure that whatever study we want to use, uh, is, uh, is feasible, is reproducible, you know. So, um, we, we had like the last, uh, the top five right now, and right now we are working on study assessments. [00:54:00] The study involves, uh, all collaborators from the us, from Europe, from Africa.
They can assess, for example, maybe we can adapt, uh, the measures, you know, for this top five. Then out of this top five study, we are gonna pick the last three. We already, if you can check, uh, we've created an OSF page for this, and we, we shared, uh, we, we have links and topics for, these are top five studies, but we don't have the final three yet, so we still have to work on that.
Yeah, so I'm,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: put that in the description, um, then to
Adeyemi Adetula: yeah, you can, you can, you can have the link to the Many Labs Africa study OSF page. So,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Okay, cool. Um, yeah, kind of my last kind of topic I'd like to talk about is, yeah, I mean, basically how we can. As people in Western universities doing research, how we can test our theories in more diverse samples, for example, [00:55:00] from Africa. Because I mean, it's something that I'd like to do. You know, I'd like to have my participants come from all over the place and also be representatives of those places.
Yeah. How can I, for example, test my theories in different populations? Because right now it just seems so much more convenient for me to test, especially people from Europe because I'm in Europe and it seems like a huge amount of effort, uh, for me, or I wouldn't even know where to start, basically, if I wanted to, for example, test my theories for people from Nigeria, I just assume I'd have to contact someone in Nigeria and start a collaboration.
But yeah. I'm curious like whether, you know, like, yeah, how can I kind of, how, how can we do.
Adeyemi Adetula: Yeah, that, that's a great question. Uh, researchers in, in Africa too. Ask questions like this, How do I connect people from other part of what's, Cause I want to test, uh, e theory and say, for me, there are so many, uh, initiatives like, uh, the [00:56:00] Psychological Science Accelerator where you have a network of researchers, uh, across the globe.
You know, maybe you can use, uh, that kind of platform. But for me, I'm not sure that is enough, because I think for a start, you need to involve, if you want to do research in that, you need to involve the local researcher there, you know, from the start, from the conceptualization of that project so that they, they can have this inputs and you able to avoid any kind of, you know, like, uh, a mistake or, you know, of making corrections here and there.
So for me, the best way is to try to connect with somebody, a local researcher. , you can use the PSA or the or any other platform, You can contact people individually and, and talk to them. I want to do something like this. How do I go about it? Can we discuss something? I have this idea and let's talk about it.
And when, when you talk about this with them, you [00:57:00] have to like be super clear about, uh, how they come into this project. You know, do you want them to collect data for you? Do you want them to, to talk about the methods? You know, so all if you can be on, on the same page with them, it makes it easier, you know, for them to know how they can, you know, they input or they can come into the project and it allows you, you know, to able to explore, you know, some of these practices that are out there that maybe you don't know, you know, or you're not familiar with, what that can benefit your, your own, uh, your own study.
So if you can do that, and then you, you, you talk about, in the first place. The study you want, the tour you want, you want to taste, are people going to be interested in that? You know, and you can actually just solve, you know, that kind of issue by talking to somebody from, from that country. Because sometimes what's most a collaboration kind of study, what they do is to, you know, figure out everything and say, ah, we need somebody in Africa to collect [00:58:00] data.
And some of them will like, Yeah, okay, we can, we can collect data for you. And, but, but they're not going to feel like part of the study, you know, because they just feel like, yeah, they're just collecting data and, uh, and that's it. Well, so sometimes you, you look at the, the measures or the instrument and like, yeah, this instrument doesn't really work here because , this is not something that we are, So there's a need for no cultural adaptation of measures.
Sometimes you can't even. Assess some kind of population, try like the non-English speaking, uh, populations in, in that kind of situation. Like it doesn't even work at all. So that means there's a need for translation of the measures because most of the measure, uh, know, are designed are, they are written in, in, in English.
So these are issues that you need to make sure that you, you trashed out, you know, make sure like everything is, then you can, you can do this stuff. So it, it's a bit, a lot of work actually, [00:59:00] but it's going to save, uh, you know, a mix A, it's going save you a lot of headaches along the line. Then allow you to have kind of more, you know, maybe I would say credible, you know, uh, kind of study because you, you able to cover a lot of stuff.
Then again, there are other things you can, you, you might want to know about. Do they have the facilities to carry out the study that you're talking about? You know? And it is not even until now that sometimes when you say online study, Most times researchers in Africa just have to set up like a designated room where they have a system and they have internet.
Then invite participants to come and take the test, you know, uh, using a particular, uh, computer, but enough for some people don't even have the internet to able to take a test online and or the, or the, or the internet is, is unstable or they don't have the phone or, So these are things that you have to consider.
And, and [01:00:00] the best way to know about this is to, is to talk to the local researcher there. I want to do this. How do we go about it? Then you guys discuss, you know, the workflow, the matters and what area is, is relevant or interesting, you know, like that. I think most studies would even be better off, you know, I'm pretty better off because you, you have cover, like adapt it, you know, to the culture.
Then you can even start comparing like, okay, Yeah, the culture is different and you can, you can see like, uh, you know, maybe there are, there are constraints. The generality of that theory. You can able to, able to, you know, able, able to, I mean, ate that, you know, better. Yeah,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah, I guess you still have to adapt it through the specific context you're in. I mean,
Adeyemi Adetula: yeah,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I guess for some studies, I, I, I thinking about my things, I think the things I do might be a bit simpler, but yeah, it's, but even there, you'd have to adapt certain things and, uh, But yeah, for some studies, I guess this is gonna [01:01:00] be a huge problem,
Adeyemi Adetula: yeah. Yes.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: certain concepts they use and describe or whatever are so like ingrained in the culture that they might not even make sense to people in other cultures.
Adeyemi Adetula: So, yeah. So, so these are, I'm, I'm facing the same issue with the , with the career projects Africa and, and the many. There are some concept that people are not familiar. It doesn't even make sense to them, so you have to adapt it. For me, no, no matter, like, uh, maybe the difference, you know, but in a way if people can, if, if you can, uh, can identify or, or they're familiar with the terminology or something, it makes it, uh, more, you know, like means more reliable, you know, you know, like to, to, for people.
Like, you can, the measures becomes better, you know, in that, uh, context. Guess what, Even for, for the many labs, Africa, like, what I'm seeing right now is that as even within Europe, you know, like there's kind of like a differences in, in how the, the, [01:02:00] the adaptation might, we might need some kind of adaptation within Europe and sometimes this speaks to like, uh, the ethical issues.
Some country might not be to run some study. And some European country. And the same study is, is just fine for another European country. And, uh, so these are, these are stuff that you need to clear, you know, and it allows everybody to, to feel, uh, included in this study, you know? Yeah. And, and, yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah. I guess as we mentioned earlier, there's, there's little point in just Western is paying African people to collect data for them. , that's not exactly the way forward.
Adeyemi Adetula: Yeah, yeah. That is not exactly the
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: I mean, it might be, it's probably better than completely ignoring them but,
Adeyemi Adetula: You
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: But it's probably not ideal either.
Adeyemi Adetula: Definitely. It's better than ignoring them. Uh, but we, what we'll probably be doing is that we, we are again kind of, uh, I wanna say exploiting, you know,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah.
Adeyemi Adetula: Yeah. So just to use the, [01:03:00] the sample to, to better. The, the, the, maybe I can use Western theories right now, you know, to better theories in the US or, or Europe.
And then those theory might not be very, very, uh, might not be useful, you know, in the African states. It's just like to explain a US or some kind of European kind of theory, you know? So, so I, I think we, we have to, we have to do better. What I mean by we, I mean, Europeans and the US research have to do better by engaging, engaging, uh, African researchers, supporting them, you know, to able to, you know, to contribute, you know, beyond data collection.
And this doesn't
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Yeah, Definit. Yeah, I guess those were all my questions. Uh, the, the only question I kind of have remaining is in, in your Patriot account you mentioned you are away from the pounded yam with the goosey soup and bush meat that you love. I was just curious what's so [01:04:00] special about that? Sounds,
Adeyemi Adetula: Uh,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: sounds good, but I don't exactly know what it is.
Adeyemi Adetula: so . So, so that's a, Okay. I'm a, I'm a Euro man and uh, so this is a very popular delicacy and we, we have like, you can boy the ya then you, you pound it, then it becomes, uh, sorry, but, you know, very nice. Then you have like a soup, you know, e see so difficult. But my own favorite is like with the ESIS soup and uh, and uh, what we call the bush meats or you know, like, I think you guys got like game or something.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Uh, okay, so bush meat means like hunted,
Adeyemi Adetula: Yes. Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah. So,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Or like, not like domesticated animals, but wild animals
Adeyemi Adetula: So
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: uh, okay. Uh, at iui. What, what, what?
Adeyemi Adetula: me obviously is melon. Like the melon seed, the seed, uh, like yeah. So we, [01:05:00] we can grind it and mix with some other, you know, stores and for, to mix soup. Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Okay.
Adeyemi Adetula: Yeah. Is is very, Maybe, maybe sometime where you, when you get to Nigeria, you know, maybe if I invite you to Nigeria, then you can You can, you can try.
You can try it. Yeah. Super nice.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Okay. Okay. Or maybe, I don't think I'll find a Nigerian restaurant in Heidel back, but who knows?
Adeyemi Adetula: No, yeah, yeah. It's possible. Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: back isn't super big.
Adeyemi Adetula: Yeah. You know, you, you know, the history of Nigerian is like, probably like almost every part of the world, like our migration history. Like we, we probably, I think we pretty much have like Nigerians around, maybe they, they have this kind of restaurant, uh, where you can get stuff like this
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Okay. Well , I'll definitely also have to try that.
Adeyemi Adetula: Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Um, yeah, I mean, so I'm basically, uh, done with my question, everything. If you have anything you want to add, uh, we can add it. Otherwise [01:06:00] I'll just stop recording.
Adeyemi Adetula: Yeah, so I,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: mean, you don't have to
Adeyemi Adetula: I, I mean, I mean, uh, for me, uh, uh, this is a journey, you know, to, to improve, uh, the position of African researcher and for me's more or less like an awareness, you know, of what is out day in Africa, how we can become part of the global, you know, psychological science. And, and so there still, it's still like a long.
A long journey if I would say that. Like, so for me, uh, something that started like a few years back probably might be like a, a lifetime kind of career stuff for me. So,
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: it's not a five year project. Yeah.
Adeyemi Adetula: yeah. So, so, so if I'm, I'm happy to, to share my thoughts, you know, uh, on a podcast. So I'm super, uh, grateful that you, I'm invited and to, you know, to share to us and talk about this.
And a lot of people listening to this and, you know, then they can, you know, [01:07:00] able to learn one or two things, and I might be to, to contribute in this matter. Yeah.
Benjamin James Kuper-Smith: Cool. Well, thank you very much.
Adeyemi Adetula: Yeah. You're welcome.